Assessing Value
Many people who wouldn’t blink an eye at taking out a 5-year loan to purchase a $15,000-$25,000 motor vehicle would never dream of paying over $500 for a bicycle. Of course, automobiles are much more complex and expensive to manufacture than bicycles, so they should cost more. On the other hand, if a bicycle is to be used for daily transportation and serve as a replacement for an automobile, it makes sense to allocate resources to purchase that bicycle analogous with its true value and usefulness.
I believe that, in general, we expect bicycle prices to be unrealistically low, an expectation that is most likely fueled by our widespread view of bicycles as recreational equipment. Obviously, it’s not prudent to invest a lot of money in a bicycle that will only be taken down from the rafters a few weekends a year and ridden to the local park, but a bicycle that can withstand hard use throughout the year (and over the years) and function reliably as an automobile replacement is going to require a larger investment. In my view, it’s not unreasonable to expect a bicycle being purchased to replace a car to cost 10-20% of the value of the car it replaces.
This is not to say that bicycle manufacturers should raise bicycle prices. To the contrary, we need a good selection of inexpensive bicycles to woo newcomers into the fold and to meet the needs of those with limited resources. And this is not to say a person must spend X number of dollars to obtain a decent bicycle that will function as basic transportation; certainly many (most) of the bicycles being used for transportation fall into the low-to-mid price range. But for dedicated transportational bicyclists who have the resources, even bicycles at the mid-to-upper end of the spectrum are a tremendous value when compared to automobiles, particularly when measured by their functionality and not by their manufacturing costs and complexity.
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43 Responses to “Assessing Value”
While I agree that you want a good, reliable bike if you’re going to use it to replace a car, I think you can meet those criteria in the $500 – $1,000 range (and much less if it’s a used bike). The main reason I wouldn’t spend more than $1,000 is because it is so much easier to steal a bike than a car — at least it’s easier to steal one and not get caught. If you keep your bike inside at night and you have a secure daytime storage place at work, and if you never leave your bike anywhere risky, then it might make sense to spend more.
I spent quite a bit more than $1,000 for my touring bike, but I only use that one for touring and exercise. My urban shopping/transportation bike cost me about $500 and seems solid and well-built enough to last a good long time, while at the same time being cheap enough that I could afford replacing it if it’s stolen.
While I would spend 2000-2500 on a bike to replace a car, I would do so knowing that most of that money is for things that don’t really affect the usefulness or durability of the bicycle. For instance, a $2000 Rivendell frame isn’t necessarily better built or more durable than a $400 Surly frame. Mostly it looks better.
Bicycle parts mostly get lighter and less useful the more expensive they get (White, Paul, King, and Phil excepted, of course). Also, if I spent thousands on a bike I would think long hard before subjecting it to the daily torments of the laudably terrible Seattle pavement.
Of course, when you start getting into lighting systems and dynohubs, maybe this changes. It’s my opinion, though, that even hard-core trasnportationalists don’t need that level of light setup, especially if they’re riding in the city. It’s just icing on the transportation cake. Expensive toys for randoneers.
Also note I make less than $2000 a month, which is a huge influence on my opinions regarding bicycles. I’ve never actually bought a new bike from a shop and only one of my bikes is less than fifteen years old.
I’ve been through this already! When my 1993 Mercury Tracer wagon died last January I decided to replace it with a Lightfoot Cycles Roadrunner trike ($3,300 base price). Added customizations (linkage steering, 2-wheel drive, ActionPacker cargo box, fairing, custom trailer hitch) brought the final price up to near $5,000. Good investment!
Likewise for me. I have a $2,000+ bike that I use for longer rides and tours, and a $300 old touring bike (’85 Schwinn Voyageur) with upright bars that’s perfect in the city. Looks like crap, rides just great. To be honest, there isn’t a huge functional difference (on rides less than 20 miles, anyway) between this bike and the $2,000 Rivendell. I’d still be sad if it got stolen, but at least I wouldn’t be broke as well =).
When friends come to me and want to get into utilitarian biking, they often do so with unreasonable expectations about cost. Some of them balk even at $300! I spend some time recalibrating their expectations a bit, but in the end I usually just set them up with a solid old steel bike with some modern components and a thorough tune-up.
Of course, bike manufactures can’t compete with the used bike market and there will always be those want to walk into a bike shop and get it all done (as opposed to waiting and scheming on CL). That’s fine, but like brad says – I think about $500 is the price point if you have to worry about theft like most of us do. If you are well off and a bit more serious, a LHT for a few hundred more isn’t out of line. However, I don’t see most people spending any more than that on their first bike – that comes later, after they’re hooked and their garage is full =).
If I were buying/building a bike to replace a car, I’d go with a well-equipped Big Dummy. I can easily imagine spending more than $3K on such a bike.
Yes, if I only needed basic transportation, I could get away with a much cheaper bike. Likewise, I could get by with a much cheaper car (http://cars.about.com/od/hyundai/fr/09accent_gsbase.htm).
The first bike I purchased as an adult was a $300 Trek in the early 90s. It was mostly an errand runner in downtown San Jose and because of a later move to the suburbs, it eventually went into fallow. Years later after moving to Portland, I resurrected it as my daily commute vehicle.
One year of solid daily commuting and I rewarded myself with an $800 bike. My old Trek is now my worst-weather-only bike, outfitted with studded tires for icy or snowy commute mornings.
The money I saved on gas & parking or transit fees more than paid for that new bike in less than a year. I also lost 27 pounds in the process. I hope to never go back to being a cager on my commute.
After two more years (little less than year to go), I think I’m going to go for a $2k+ bike. I’ve got my mind set on a nice Civia or a Renovo bamboo frame for my next bike. The more I ride, the more I see what kind of things I want in my next commuter.
Then again, the things I could do with a cargo bike or a longtail …
Should we be comparing the cost of bikes to cars if we know cars are ridiculosly expensive, debt causing things? I think it would be better to compare in terms of different people’s income and living situations. i think its hard to expect people to buy a $1000 + bike for the city because of theft risk even if they didn’t have the car. Additionally, many of the new city/commuter/urban bikes that are geared as transportation are new products for N. American bike companies. I think alot of people would be hesitant to be the first to buy these bikes costing around $1000 as we don’t know how long they would last for or how easily they would run into problems. Personally, if I were to buy a $1000 or more bike, I would have to know it could last for at least 15 years and would not have a problem finding a mechanic to service the bike.
I also think the industry has unfortunately fueled some of the unreasonable expectations of consumers regarding transportation bikes. After a few decades of equating higher prices with more gadgetry (full suspension MTBs) and exotic materials (Ti and carbon fiber), a consumer looking at an all-steel non-suspension utilty bike won’t understand why it’s more than a fraction of those other bikes. Durability is not a quality that can be obsrved on the showroom floor.
On the topic of theft: it’s hard to get accurate statistics for bicycle thefts because just over half of stolen bikes typically get reported, but it looks like approximately 1.3 million bikes were stolen in the United States in 2006 (source: (see http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/files/RIC/Publications/e060810143.pdf).
Interestingly enough, in 2006 roughly the same number of motor vehicles were reported stolen: 1.2 million. (source: http://auto-theft.info/Statistics.htm).
According to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics, there were 135.4 million passenger vehicles registered in 2006. (source: http://www.bts.gov/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_01_11.html)
I haven’t seen any comparable recent estimates for the number of bicycles in the United States; that would allow one to do a percentage comparison to see how much more (or less) likely it is to have your bike stolen than to have your car stolen. Has anyone seen an estimate of the number of bikes in use in the United States?
I only have one car and a full replacement isn’t possible. But I tend to think of a few bikes – a commuter and something for hauling stuff.
Theft is a serious problem around here and I can’t imagine buying a $3k bike. I would pay some money towards secure and guaranteed parking facilities. THAT is a major factor in where I go.
I think that I would not spend any money on A bike to replace a car. I think that complete replacement of a car might best be cone with two or three bikes. Day-in, day-out all around transportation, big-stuff errand and recreation.
If I were buying new, I’d spend $1100 (or much more if I were flush with money) for a durable, safe, comfortable bike to use for all around transportation. That seems to be the going price for a fully equipped (for my neck of the woods – fenders, racks, good lighting system, good saddle etc., less if you live somewhere warm, dry and light). I could (and did) spend much less on an old (Univega) frame refurbished to my needs. So, say something like an LHT or Raleigh Superbe (new) or an 80′s Japanese bike (refurbished).
In addition a Big Dummy (new) or a refurb with an Xtracycle conversion kit for the bigger errands (think carpet steamer, lumber and so forth) at $800 (refurb) to $2500 (Big Dummy complete),
Then you might want a touring bike or a mountain bike to replace the recreational aspects of the car.
Well first of all I wouldn’t spend $20,000 on an automobile and I have never purchased any new car. I think I have scored when I can get a car for next to nothing or free and spend as little as possible to make it safe and reliable. I would think bicycles would be no different.
What you want in a real commuting bicycle that you use year round in all types of weather and all times of the day is: reliability, serviceability, durability, comfort, safety and usefulness.
I’ve commuted on average about 100 miles per week for about 8 months out of the year and believe me, your bicycle just becomes a tool to use. You soon find that you need to service it, change tires, chains, add lighting etc. Your bike becomes less of a toy and more of a tool that lets you get around conveniently more or less.
Given the above parameters I would want a disc braked, titanium bike with generator lighting, fenders, racks and quality hubs, bottom bracket and headset. I’m thinking Phil Wood parts, Son hub and such. A steel frame would do as well but I’m lazy and don’t care to watch for rust even though its not a big issue its just that titanium doesn’t corrode and its light, strong and springy. A folding bike such as Bike Friday would probably be a good compromise given the above materials and parts and if that were the case then I would spend up to $3000 ………if I were riding year round. My full commute is 40 miles per day however so in reality that would mean a partial commute and the Bike would need to be able to be transported conveniently by auto or bus. If I worked within 5-10 miles of home I could use any style bike. If I was an urban commuter riding less than 10 miles per day I’d probably just ride an old beater.
While I haven’t completely replaced my vehicle with my bikes, using the bikes has kept me from replacing my old “payed off” truck that’s not “eating anything” as it were with a new one. Bye the way, have you seen what new vehicles cost? WOW! I could spend ALOT on a new bike and not feel guilty about it.
Some friends found themselves in an ideal situation for shedding a car. They live in Davis, CA with relatively short commutes and one of their two old cars started having serious problems. Rather than replacing it, they got a couple of Batavus (‘can’t remember the models) and decided to use them wherever possible. The experiment was successful and their savings huge if you look at new car expenses. Since then they broadened out with an xtracycle for large loads and a beater for really bad weather.
I’m with everyone else on the fear of bike theft. I’ve had three bikes stolen in the last 15 years – one old beater (stolen out of my basement), and two bikes that I had purchased new (stolen while locked up outside my job). In the same period of time I’ve had two windows broken out on cars, but nothing stolen in either case.
I’ll probably never buy a new bike again. It’s craigslist now, for sturdy old steel road bikes that can be made into city bikes.
BTW, I’ve never purchased a new car, just used ones that I could buy without needing a loan.
When I got rid of my car, approx 20K when it was new, I decided to go the multi-bike route instead of trying to buy one really nice bike to do everything. I bought a new folding bike (for when the bus bike rack is full and designated driver duties), an 86 Bridgestone MB-2 that I converted into an xtracycle, a 96 Rans V-Rex that’s my main ride and an 83 Trek 620 that’s a general purpose backup bike and is setup to haul a BOB trailer. Between the 4 I didn’t spend a fortune and am pretty well set even if one bike develops a problem. A year in I can honestly say I don’t miss the car at all but I do drool over the thought of an Atlantis or something of that nature.
Ant
Theft isn’t a problem where I live, it’s more the hills and bad weather. Steep climbs, rain and ice, occasional heavy loads and my age mean disc brakes, a wide gear range, room for fenders and studs and so on. Replacing a car, I have to agree with Keith and Bill, a big dummy or other cargo bike is a first choice. And that could get over $3k, but I think one could put something together for a good bit less – my xtracycle, donor bike included, was around $1300. But I’d say whatever floats your boat. Some people I know woud ride more often on an expensive bike, and that’s what I tell them to get. The thing is to get them on a bike.
It is changing quickly, but I struggled finding that every day sort of bike. It took me a while to find the right donor for my xtracycle. Nice to see the number of choices going up exponentially.
Weird to me to see all the fear of bike theft keeping people from spending what they might on a bike.
I’ve never had a bike stolen, but I’ve had a car stolen from right in front of my house, recovered as totaled.
I guess I’m pretty damned spoiled. I’ve got secure parking at home, and I’ve got secure parking at work (seeing as my bike is stored in a card-key secured locker that used to be the firing range in an old Federal Reserve building).
I would say that $1000 to $2000 would be quite reasonable for a vehicle equivalent to a $20,000 car. However, I have never spent that kind of money on a car, and never intend to. In the same way, I would be much happier buying a used bike for $500 that retailed for $1500 originally, if at all possible. But if I had the money, I might reconsider. You have some beautiful bikes in those photos.
I have way more invested in bicycles than I would ever think to invest in a car. My present car that I’ve owned for 12 years now is a 1948 Willys Jeep. It’s not pristine but it’s OK back up in nasty weather.
Personal property tax on the jeep is $5.00 a year.
As for my bikes. I have a 1973 Bob Jackson road bike of which I bought the frameset new in 73 and it is presently built up with a vintage Campy Super Record groupo, Cinelli bar and stem, Super Champion rims and old, need to be replaced silks. I have a lot of history with that bike.
I have a 1993 Litespeed mountain bike that is decked out in Chris King and other top flight components.
I put about 1,000 miles a year off road on the Litespeed.
I also have a 1989 Burley Rock & Roll tandem that is at the moment my primary ride, the bike I ride for transportation when out and about solo. Along with my tandem I also ride a 2003 Santana triplet, depending if I’m riding with one or both of my kids. These two are my utilitarian vehicles with both set up with racks and panniers, lights and horns.
I would place the value of the above bikes in the $18,000. That’s how they are valued on my home owners policy.
My new bike which is due to ship November 2nd is a Velomobile Quest built by Bluevelo in Toronto Canada. I refinanced my home, pulled out some cash and reduced my monthly mortgage payment to $700 a month.
This bike will be the most expensive bike I have ever bought at $8,000 and will be my solo bike and perhaps the last bike I will ever purchase.
Would I ever think of buying a car for $8,000?
Of course not. That would be a waste.
Reading this post has convinced me to get Stokemonkey for my Xtracycle. Meaning my bike will end up having had around 8000 puny australian dollars spent on it. Crazy. It definitely wasn’t all at once. A lot of it was in build costs (LBS guys had never heard of xtracycle or nuvinci) and of course I’m sure in the US or Europe this bike could’ve been put together for at least half the cost. But mostly I just wanted it to be exactly right – NuVinci, dynamo, rear disc brake, kickback, etc, etc. It’s brilliant and the most comfortable bike I’ve ever ridden. Stokemonkey will take it into a whole other league though and maybe I’ll never have to get my license. Time to start saving…
Interesting facts – here a stock Surly Cross Check retails for nearly US $1900. A Civia Loring will set you back US $2,350. Plus check out the Austrlian Raleigh site: http://www.rideraleigh.com/browse-bike-range/browse-bike-range-default.aspx
Count yourselves lucky!
Way back up the post list are some statistics on theft. Two issues come to mind; one how many cars stolen versus number recovered? And how many bikes are recovered? In the past 30 years I have had 7 or 8 bikes stolen, some from locked garages, some from inside my apartment, others from the rack at school. A grand total of ONE was recovered, and I recovered it not the police. Car theft is considered a MAJOR CRIME not so bicycle theft. Then there is the issue of insurance, a $500 deductible on a $10,000 car makes sense, but not on a $1000 bike.
We need more entry level bikes properly equipped. If WalMart can sell a fully suspended MTB for $169 they could certainly sell a basic 5 speed with fenders, racks and lights for a similar price.
Aaron
I’m all on the bicycling bandwagon, but as some people have pointed out, a lot of bike commuters aren’t riding bikes instead of $20000 cars. They’re riding bikes instead of $2000 cars. And when I lived in the US, I had several bikes stolen, but no one ever touched my car. And if they had, the police would have at least tried to recover it.
Another tough thing is that you only understand what bikes are worth once you’ve been riding for a while. No one’s going to be able to buy that one perfect bike for their needs until they’ve got a lot of experience- and as we see from this site, even experienced and knowledgable cyclists don’t tend to be satisfied with what they have.
The post makes some great points and yeah, $1000 bikes are probably worth the money. But so are $150 ones.
Very difficult question for me. I re-entered the world of cycling about 1980 with the newly purchased Puch Marco Polo. A nice braised lugged frame. My car was a 1971 BMW 2500 that would sometimes start during the cold of winter. I currently have along with the old Puch, Rans Numbus, Trek Metro-track, Trek 930 mountain and my car is a 1982 VW Rabbit turbo diesel. All but the bent will fit inside Rabbit. Hmmm, each bike is worth more than car. I also have a 87 VW Vanagan used mostly for hauling Rans. The bent cost more than that van. Lusting for a trike. Getting too old for two wheel winter ice slides .
Alan said:
“I believe that, in general, we expect bicycle prices to be unrealistically low, an expectation that is most likely fueled by our widespread view of bicycles as recreational equipment.”
Actually, my unrealistically low bike price expectations are due to the fact that I’m still stuck in the 70s, when you could get a top-notch bike for a song (or $400, depending on the dealer). I had never paid more than $500 for a bike until a few weeks ago, when I broke down and plunked down $1,300 for a new recumbent, a Bacchetta Bell’andare–I just had to have it. The comfort is unreal!
@bongobike
Congrats on your new ‘bent. The Bellandare is a sweet ride!
Several commenters have already said the following, but I want to reiterate it:
The greatest limitation preventing me from investing a significant amount of money in a commuter bike is the risk of getting it stolen. Anyone who has been commuting for a significant amount of time has had their bike stolen, and it sucks. I would spend $10,000 on a bike if the extra cost would ensure that the bike could be parked anywhere securely and would not be damaged.
Also, I think the key is not just investing significant amounts of money on one bike, but having a stable of bikes that fulfill a variety of needs. I could not live a “bicycle lifestyle” with only one bike. I have 7 bikes on which I’ve spent anywhere from $5 to $2500. Each one serves a particular purpose. Some of them are beater bikes that I ride in situations where the risk of getting stolen or damaged is high. Riding an expensive bike in these types of situations causes too much anxiety.
I voted for $3K+, but I need (want, actually) at least three bikes.
The annual operating cost of a vehicle can be staggering. Mutilple bikes – not so much. So, while we may be replacing a $20K initial investment, we are replacing at least that much more in operating expenses over the lifespan of our bikes.
$3,000 to offset $40,000? Priceless!! (well, 7.5%, but that’s close enough)
A car replacement for me would mean something with kid hauling capabilities. You asked the maximum I would be willing to spend, so that is easily over$3K. Of course my current kid hauling ride is a $1300 Madsen, not a $3000 Bakfiets, but I could see going that route, I could also see spending that much on a high quality custom bike for personal use, or on a custom kid/cargo bike.
After riding passed all the expensive cars in the Physicians parking lot at the hospital I work, I
decided to leave behind my frugal bicycle shopping ways and go after the bike of my dreams. Several years (and a more expensive dream bike) later, I’m glad with the decision I made to invest in a higher quality bike. It has kept the joy of riding alive and spurred me on to commute consistently—with a grin.
Exactly! Who spends $20,000 on a car? Cars are the worst investment imaginable. Would you buy a house that you knew was going to lose half it’s value in the first three years? Of course not! How about a stock, bond, or mutual fund share? Heck no!
I drive a 15 year old Volvo wagon that hauls everything I need, is cheap to maintain, gets 30mpg, and only cost me $2,500. When I’m not hauling lumber or dogs around, I ride the bike. I could afford a much more expensive car, but why waste money?
For a lot of people, theft is a serious issue. The only reason I ride a reasonably nice bike to work is because there are individual storage lockers. I expect people will soon start adding GPS trackers to their bikes.
Most major cities have a thriving underground economy for stolen bikes. Some thieves have a system set up where they steal bikes in one city, load them in a truck, sell them elsewhere. Then you’ve got unethical bike shops and people snatching up cheap bikes on CraigsList with out asking questions. Combine that with low-level enforcement and punishment of bike theft, and you’ve got a great money-making opportunity. For example, just take a look at this:
Here is the link to the original article about a shady Toronto shop that finally got busted for having over 2,000 stolen bikes after operating openly for years.
@thermador
“Exactly! Who spends $20,000 on a car?”
Automobiles are one of the major expenses (after housing) in most middle class families. In many of the middle class suburbs of California a majority of the cars on the road are worth more than $20,000. Our one car is a 10-year-old Honda not worth half that, but the majority of the cars we see on the road around here are less than 2-3 years old and much nicer than our car.
I sold my 1992 BMW 318i after 3 years of struggling to pay off $50+ a month in parking tickets in San Francisco. Add that to registration, the nation’s highest gas prices, insurance. They make it near impossible to own a car there if you have to park it on the street. You have to move it every day to avoid street sweeping. I couldn’t drive to work downtown because of the outrageous parking prices and no spots at my job. I had to sell it. I got $2500 for it.
I took that money and bought a $2000 bike. Oh the relief of not worrying about that car out on the street getting broken into! Yes parking the bike outside was nerve wracking the first few months, but I parked it inside at night at home and had the good fortune of parking it in the storeroom at work. Granted the bike cost a bit more than my monthly income, but I feel like I definitely got my money’s worth after just two or three months. If it were stolen within six months I could still feel like it was worth it. I rode to work every day, rain or shine. Started taking tough rides up to Marin just for the hell of it and got in great shape, made some new friends.
And where is that bike now? I sold it, lost some money in the deal, and upgraded to a $3500 Riv A Homer Hilsen with every reasonable upgrade I could think of. Best $3500 I ever spent. And the return on my investment… not paying gas for grocery errands. Not paying bus and BART fares unless absolutely necessary. Not paying parking tickets. No auto insurance, registration, parking permits. Not worrying about my car getting broken into. I do pay rental insurance though. And the bike is covered.
At least 2 of my bikes have more than $3000 put into them. Of course one of those bikes has a Rohloff hub, so half your top end money is there. I love my bikes and would happily put more money into them.
Yeah, I suppose that’s true – it’s easy to forget that when you’re driving cheap cars and riding on bike paths. A car is certainly not one of my major expenses. Here in Portland cars don’t rust away (although they will grow moss), so it’s pretty easy for people to find older Hondas, Toyotas and Volvos with 150k on the clock for a few thousand dollars.
I just can’t see why people are willing to spend so much on something that depreciates so rapidly. I’m not an anti-car guy; on the contrary, I love cars (especially the new high performance electrics from Tesla and Audi). I just don’t see where the decision to drive an expensive one makes sense financially. Bikes and older cars both hold their value better and cost less to operate. That said, I voted “$3,000 plus” ;-)
People are very bad at knowing the impact of inflation. When I was a kid, my Dad bitching about paying $100 dollars for a bike set my baseline expectation. In 2003 I didn’t want to spend $800 on a bike, even though the bike I was considering was much much better than the kids bike my dad was complaining about.
Of course I am more aware of what I want for a bike and how much they cost now. So I am willing to pay for it. But bikes are not frequent purchases for most of us and we lack context, thereby reverting to our baseline expectations set in childhood.
2whls3spds wrote
“If WalMart can sell a fully suspended MTB for $169 they could certainly sell a basic 5 speed with fenders, racks and lights for a similar price.”
Working as a bicycle mechanic for over 15 years I have yet to see a department store bike that has ever been set up correctly from the get go. One fellow I know was offered a $2.00 a bike commission to build them up at a Walmart store in Falmouth MA. The trouble with a Walmart full suspension bike is regardless of how much money you throw at it they just never run right.
Would you buy a department store bike if you had to pay out 75% to 100% of what you originally paid for it to set it up safely only to find it doesn’t work worth a damn any way.
In the bike shop trade these bikes are referred to as “Bike Like Objects.”
I would recommend to everyone to buy their entry level bikes from a reputed Bicycle Shop.
I voted a little lower than one would expect because the bottom line is that theft has to be taken into account. For instance, as much as I want a Rivendell, I’m afraid that it’s too flashy to be left on the street here in New York (would love input on this from urban Riv owners), and I know I wouldn’t be able to replace it if/when it was stolen. It’s more practical to plan to replace a bargain bike every few years (but hope you don’t have to) than it is to be left stranded when your perfect beautiful amazing $2500 bike is stolen.
That said, I don’t think ‘bargain bike’ should be synonymous with ‘junky big box bike’. I ride a used 10-speed that’s almost as old as I am, and I’m proud!
My vote of between $1000 and $1500 was reflecting how much I would be willing to spend on a NEW bike. My budget so far for bikes has not been more than $500 per bike. My reason is that, although I love watching what new builders and manufacturers are doing, I just can’t let old bikes go unridden. Old bikes can be got for little to no money and many of these are, for the most part, rideable but not great looking. A little bit of elbow grease and some polish makes a frame presentable. A new chain, brakes, tires and tubes will make it ready for commuting and if you have some extra cash, a nice leather saddle will turn heads on the long haul.
In my experience, restoring a ride engenders a more respectful relationship with a machine. I recommend that everyone bring at least one bicycle back from the brink.
Alan,
You’ve brought this topic up before and I still feel uncomfortable with the concept of $20,000 car equals $2,000 bicycle.
As has been mentioned previously, if you have to store your bicycle outside at home, park it outside at work, chain it to the rack at the grocery store, post office, farmer’s market, movie theatre, bike rack on the bus, etc. you tend to choose a bicycle that’s not going to attract the attention of a thief. And, one that can deal the elements. If, like you, you have a garage and covered storage at the train station then it makes sense to indulge oneself.
I think it’s great that so many great bicycles are being built, but most people new to commuting aren’t going to want to spend $3k on a bicycle, especially in the current economy. 2 years ago, many people might have felt differently but now that the Home ATM has mostly disappeared, $3k bicycles will find few buyers.
This last year has seen a plethora of bicycles that are well-built, reasonably priced and attractive to a broad range of commuting styles. Many are in the $500-$1,500 range, I believe that’s the sweet spot for most people.
Warning, rant follows—not really directed at Alan’s post, but rather at certain beefs the post reminded me of. Consume with a grain of salt…
In theory it’s a great concept to illustrate to transportational bicyclists the value of their investment in a bike, but there is another side. The fact is that while there is a great intersection between cars and bicycles in their abilities, they are not interchangeable. For example, in our circumstances my family must have a car. It’s a non-discretionary expense for us. As much as we love and use our bikes, we got by just fine before we got into bicycle transportation; the same could not be said of losing our car. Bikes are discretionary for us. Before anyone judges me or assumes I’m being lazy, let me assure them that I understand my family’s circumstances better than they. In light of our non-discretionary expenses there isn’t a lot left over for bikes, so I ride a frankensteined road bike from the early 70′s for which I paid $0 plus about $200 in parts to fix up. That didn’t stop me from riding 85 miles to and from work over the course of last week.
The reality is that for more people to get into bicycles, the attitudes of the bike industry and active cyclists have to change first. Right now most of the bicycles in the U.S. sit in garages unridden. The high-end road and mountain bikes go unridden because they are unsuitable for utilitarian purposes and their owners only take them out when they have time for recreational riding. On the other hand I believe many people don’t ride their low-end bikes partly because of the bad attitudes of the cycling world toward them. The message from some in the cycling community (present company excluded) is that if your bike isn’t of professional racing quality you’re some kind of chump for riding it. Seek help from some bike shops for anything other than the $1000+ type bikes they sell and see how seriously they take you. I’m not talking about mooching help off of them for free, but wanting to give them your money in exchange for goods and services appropriate to your non-racing bike. To be clear I’m not talking about all bike shops but they are out there. I was in a shop recently looking for some stuff for my old bike and one of the staff dismissed my efforts saying “time for you to buy a new [implication: real] bike, buddy”. For all he knew I could have been working on an old Eddy Merckx, but it didn’t matter because there was no carbon fiber or STI shifting involved. Calling department store bikes “bike shaped objects” or “bike-like objects” doesn’t help either; for some people that is all they can get their hands on and the reality is they can serve as transportational bikes.
As for individual cyclists, I encounter similar attitudes. I have a basket on my bike, which at a glance sends a clear signal stating “this is not a cool racing bike”. I always try to wave and greet other cyclists on the road, and find that those on the most expensive bikes are more likely to ignore me. One look at that basket (and maybe my lack of spandex) and I’m obviously inferior. Maybe I just have a chip on my shoulder and I’m seeing what I expect to see, but my perception of this reality isn’t altogether implausible either.
As for manufacturers, I agree with a previous commenter that they could produce a decent steel bike with racks and fenders for the same cost as the sub $500 bikes sporting disc brakes and some nightmarish interpretation of “suspension” that they foist on the world. The impediment isn’t that department stores do a terrible job setting them up, because that problem equally effects the current crop of bikes in that price range and that’s not stopping them now. Besides, where is it written that bike shops can’t sell a sub $500 bike? They might sell more of them and make up for the reduced profit in volume. Again I know this criticism doesn’t apply to every shop. Also, I do see signs of the trend starting to change with the appearance of some frankly decent transportation oriented bikes in that range.
Finally, if anyone has actually read this far, I emphasize again that this isn’t directed at Alan’s post or the likely readers of this blog. In fact I come here for refuge from these attitudes. Indeeed in the post Alan touched on the same theme in the third paragraph.
I’m probably preaching to the choir on most points… but hey, I did say it was a rant.
Anonymous Coward
I read your whole post and wouldn’t call it a rant at all.
We have a number of Trek adult size bikes that run in the sub $300 range. We sent them up as the customer wants with racks and fenders, bags and lights.
We also deal with Cervelo bikes but stock far more entry level bikes than high end ones.
I stand by the term “bike like objects.” I have seen these department store bikes come in to the shop and they don’t run worth a damn. We offer an entry level, adult size Trek for about the same price as a Wall Mart full suspension machine but ours are set up to run for years on end.
People think they are getting a deal when they buy a one size fits all bicycle which an overwhelming amount are not ridden and are left out to the elements because they are such a piss poor product.
Saturday I worked on a $80 single speed Wal Mart stunt bike that had a flat tire but the owner was having trouble with a lack of brakes, the chain kept falling off and just didn’t roll very well.
The bottom bracket was very loose and the rear hub was bearing grinding overly tight. The single chainring, one piece crank set, the chain in one spin of the crank went from extremely tight to sloppy loose. I installed Salmon colored Cool Stop brake pads and basically both P.O.S. side pull brakes, adjusted bearings, did what i could with that crankset and he spent more than what he paid for it in parts and labor.
My boss will ask a customer what size shoe they wear. Lets just say the customer says a size 10. The boss will ask them if they would buy a size 8 shoe if they could get a deal and of course they say no.
The response to that is, why would you buy a bike that doesn’t fit nor run very well.
We turn away department store full suspension bikes as one can spend in excess of what they paid for the bike for us to set them up and make them run, except after all that they still don’t run worth a damn.
A friend of mine, another bike mechanic was at the Wal Mart in Falmouth MA and was looking at the bikes in their bike department. He noticed a line of “mountain bikes” on display all set up with their suspension forks turned around backwards. He brought it to the attention of one of the salesmen who insisted that that was the way they are suppose to be set up. My friend told the salesman that he was a professional bicycle mechanic at which the salesman got kind of excited and offered him a whopping $2.00 a bike commission to work their and set up all their bikes.
Hey! As we all know, all it takes is a hammer, crescent wrench and a screw driver to set up a bicycle.
@David
I agree with all of your points and only wish more shops were like yours.
Regarding bikes from Walmart etc. I would only respond with a few thoughts. To be clear I’m not advocating that consciously active cyclists like readers of this blog use or advocate purchasing them. I’m saying that when more involved cyclists encounter someone slogging away on one they should be positive about the person’s efforts and encourage the person to stick with it and get a better bike when resources permit. It sounds like you and your shop do just that as best you can with some pretty messed up bikes, so kudos to you.
As for their rideability, I don’t doubt your assessment but it sounds like you mostly see the ones that come in with problems. Where I live there is a substantial lower-income population that seems to skew the number of people using department store bikes for transportation. This is not scientific, just my observation. I see dozens of people riding them every week. So there must be at least some of these bikes rolling out of the store in rideable condition. When I see them up close the worst problems are usually saddle too low and a poorly maintained drive-train, both of which can be improved by the positive influence of more experienced riders. Anyway, for a decade I drove past these people thinking I couldn’t ride a bike because I didn’t have one because I couldn’t afford one that I deemed up to my standards. The irony was lost on me the whole time.
It was a coincidental series of events that found me on an old Raleigh three-speed one day whereupon I realized I had been depriving myself of a great source of fun and happiness because I had bought into the message that I needed a $1000+ bike to do any “serious” riding. A few weeks later I resurrected the franken-muter from someone’s junk pile and haven’t looked back.
Anyway, thanks for your response and insights. Keep up the good work.